If you want to build something serious ( TPI, Ford, GM, Mopar it dont matter ) then at this current point in time? This is the best engine management to start with.

http://www.holley.com/554-114.asp


Why Im still on such a big LS bandwagon is the stock ECM will do all of what that software will do, PLUS control an auto trans

I'm with Cam 100%.
Either throw on the tpi bolt ons with a modern cam for 300hp at the wheels for minimal bucks or yank it and save/document and throw an LS at it.
If you want to change the engine controller with the tpi it will be easier to tune, and still look stock.

On my 86 I've done an LT1 swap and am in the process of an LS swap (LQ4) but kept every single nut and bolt to put it back stock if required when I'm an old geezer and want to go slow.

I suppose that depends on the persons goals for the end product. If speed is all you care about then yes cheaper+faster=better. If that's what I wanted I wouldn't have a GTA. My car is not a race car and will never be caged. Therefor 11s is as quick as I want it. If I can do that with my LB9 (and I most certainly can) I'll be much happier than with an LS even if it costs more and takes more work than a complete LM7 swap that'll do the same ET. Why? Because that's what I want.

Fair enough. Well then lemme try and help. As I see it really, and how this whole thread got rolling is no matter how you slice it, to take a TPI to 11's is going to take compromise on some level. So considering that we need to know what your willing to compromise on.

The biggest hurdle is fuel. Are you willing to consider running different fuel than pump gas? Hawk can you SD tune those ECM's?

I can/could but I don't anymore, and I think LB9's is an MAF car, cant remember what year he is, Kev's is a SD, I do know who they can take it to for a dyno tune

Also, I ran good old 87 octane, aka regular but I went fast with cubes not boost/juice on my last toy. Just so you know, Bastards running single digits also on pump fuel

Biggest hurdle with TPI is breathing, she be a choke in natural form

YA but that guys running carbs and BBC mostly isnt he? Regardless when all else is the same? Cubes beats all

Anyways if you switched over to C16 or maybe methanol and cranked up the CR to 12:1 or more, mildish cam, maybe a reverse split something like 220/216, no big cam is going to work well with that long runner intake. Should go 11's all motor so long as you can tune it, which I think should be SD to basically remove the MAFs ability to mess with your commanded fuelling. Might be okay. At that point its just the intake thats gonna limit it, how far you get in terms of et depth? Dunno, but id have to think 12's would be a very doable goal. Add some spray in there and 11's should be there. With the race gas it sure would be fun to "pill it til ya kill it", who knows 10's maybe

Boost as well needs good fuel, you can do pump gas and meth but tuning dual fuel with stock TPI stuff I dont think is wise, in fact tuning boost with TPI management makes my hair turn greyer just thinking about it. Definition files Yayyyyy...

Anyways price wise for a na build like that with a fresh short ( might as well add cubes and do a 406 ) maybe $5-8k? 10? Forged short, go fast parts and tune? I think you could probably come in close to that if you buy the right parts once.

When it come to boost, you use the Syclone/Typhoon Def file with the stock 730 ECM (90-92), runs boost decently google how fast peeps have gotten them Syclones/Typhoons going

For the 85-89's the MAF can only read so much air, once u surpass that level with a good hair dryer, its lost, an FMU is just a band aid in my opinion, way better off going to a stand alone, like mentioned before

When it comes to cost for the 12's and under daily driven cars, then I agree that LSx is a good way to go, but for the OP's wanted 300rwhp, not overly hard with the TPI

As for cubes, I personally feel, 3xx anything is for pansies, change that 1st diget to at least a 4 puts on anti-flame suit and runs to hide

I won't be going na. I like boost. No need for forged parts or meth just for 11s. Turbo L98s have been in the 10s daily driven with cast parts and the 305 is just as tough. As Hawk said my car is't sd so i will likely be using aftermarket engine managment. Possibly 24x. i pretty well know the peanut cam will have to go. But thats the furthest i'll have to go into the engine. For me the biggest hurdle is insurance since i want to insure it for what it is. Not as a normal car.

Here is a good example. Keep in mind these are engine dyno numbers. http://www.superchevy.com/technical/eng ... induction/

Cam im not making a shot at you im just saying Kevin wants to stay tpi and everyone is saying not to. I know where he is coming from and just trying to steer im in the direction i see him going with his setup which i would think is a just a refresh and some bling under the hood. I did the same thing i knew i should have went LS when i built my LT but i wanted to be different and try to make a killer car out of it. Some people will say im nuts to rebuild the OHC L6 in my 69 and just throw a 400 or 455 in a call it a day but wheres the fun in that

^ I was also trying to talk you into working with the 6 banger because the Poncho ohc 6 truly is a cool piece and will stop a LOT more people at a show to gander at it than another 400 Pontiac will or even an LS, that car is cool. But there just are not a lot of those cars out there, not a giant amount were built compared to TPI that is, plus it also has 20 years to age and grow into coolville. 20 years from now TPI will be cool and the gang as well. But not too many people who know what TPI is, have a lot of respect for it, so proving them wrong is a worthy cause and I can see the fun it it.

If your gonna turbo it be very careful with the cam, Id start with stock or at least stay VERY mild. I wouldnt bother with all the work to install a rear mount either, A front mount set up is a lot better for a lot of reasons. A single 75mm or twin 60's would make more than enough for any street car.

With aftermarket management? It wont be that tough to get working well. Im looking forward to seeing one of you guys get this done and make some passes, just dont get mad if my car still HANDS YOU YOUR ASSES!! hahahaaa

Actually the rear mount is "easier", that is the only reason why people do it over the of course better efficient and traditional front mount. With the rear mount you leave everything the way it is located stock, no relocating, no custom headers, no custom y-pipe. Instead, ditch the muffler (turbo becomes the muffler ) and just plum a regular pipe up to the front on the passenger side, right beside your stock I-pipe (you can actually buy another stock I-pipe and run them parallel) upto the front and through the intercooler over to the drivers side then coming in where the CIA would of on an LTx car, nothing to it. You could buy everything off the shelf, nothing custom made. Lots of peeps running single digit 1/4's with them so they do work.

On a front mount, costuming up the plumbing at the front for a novice could turn into a nightmare when figuring out where to relocate everything in the way and fab up the new plumbing, remember we are "supposed" to stay legal and keep all that wonderful emissions junk that's in the way on a TPI's engine bay.

Here is an old link of one done on a LSx with a junk yard turbo if you want, 3 things I don't like how this redneck did his, one was instead of coming up the CIA spot after an intercooler across the front, the noob notched his rad support, and two instead of pluming into the oil pan with the proper fitting he tapped into the OIL cap, pmsl. Both get the job done but I consider it rather greasy, do it right, lol. Third is he ran the piping down the Drivers side, I'd follow the stock path to the front, lots of room to run dual pips there.

http://www.junkyardturbos.com/Rear-Mount-Turbo.php

Yuk, Greasy work man just greasy


WTF?!?!?! Just run it up the Drivers side where the charcoal can is on the TPI Camaro's (move the can over, lots of room) or where the CIA on the LT1 cars are run.


Coming up the drivers side with the piping, prolly easier to do this on some of the 3rd gen birds who's battery is located on the Drivers side (reverse to the TPI Camaro's) thus coming upto the TB from the Passenger side instead

Here is some Front mount pics just to give Idea's/comparisons, lots of custom work for a front mount in a 3rd gen








rear mound on a 3rd gen bird with an LT1

Valid points, but its not a big deal at all to route the exh through a cat apre turbo. A good turbo system works on heat as well, and rear mounts cannot harness that potential. Plus running any kind of dual exh larger than 2 1/4" on a panhard/torque arm car is no easy task at all. I dont know how this is possible without losing major ground clearance. Front or rear mount there are some piping challenges ahead of you, so why start off with a less than ideal set up. Do it once, do it right, or dont waste your time and money is my thinking. A pair of turbo headers like so

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cxracing-Twin-S ... f8&vxp=mtr


Think of how badass it will look when you pop the hood with those pipes hanging off the heads with a TPI intake and big fat snail hanging out front will look. If nothing else you will put the FEAR of shame on all comers, especially those import guys, they see turbo and V8 and poop goes the pants right there


Speaking of which heres a local car that does just that. 100 bucks worth of pipe and some careful cut/weld and you can have the same, I really dont think a rear mount will be any easier by the time your done. Especially a single, wont be that hard to pipe it in

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=11284

I never once said the rear mount was more efficient, crack a beer, take a deep breath and then re-read what I wrote, I said it was EASIER, and by far it is. Those headers you posted up, take a real good look at them and then realize everything you will have to move and change to use them.

Not sure where you get some of your info but a lot of what you think you know TPI based seems to be wrong.
As for the duel exhaust, u can go right up to twin 3" with the upper panhard changed, in stock form u can fit a 3" exhaust and a 2.5" return pipe, the 2.5" return is usually all u need, for those under 400hp, 2.25" is plenty tbh.

http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=prod ... ductid=280 <-- see Dual 3" proofs in the pudding

Sure the front mount looks mean when done, but the rear also gives a sleeper effect, I bring a single digit rear mount to race you, blow the doors off your low 12 second car, pop the hood and all you see is a TPI with a pipe dropping down into the CIA location, you'll be going WTF???

Yes twin hair dryers in an engine bay looks sweet, never said it doesn't, what I said was that it takes a lot of work moving and relocating our stock parts to make them fit, and it DOES, thus why the rear mount is EASIER not better, I even showed pics of some single snail set-ups so you can see the difference.

Take a good look at them pics for the single, notice how most peeps put it where the AC USED to be? I like my AC thank you, so for me that's not an option, on a rear mount, my AC stays right where it is, blowing cold air all the way down the track.

Also Notice the custom welding/fabing for the pipes? I gave another close up pic on there of the header with the head so you can see. For the average Joe, that's not easy to do, but for the average Joe running a stock I-pipe back up to the front it is rather simple.

As for that local car, there is ALOT of custom work on it, nice build no doubt, but on a road side blitz, he will be there for a few hours getting it inspected trying to prove its still legal, and for the average Joe, that's way to much work, ha, not a chance.