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 Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY? 
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Post Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
I ordered the Speed Engineering 1-7/8" long tube headers, as well as their ypipe for my 1999 Camaro SS. I will need to remove my AIR/EGR system but I was thinking of doing that myself.

Is this a do-it-yourself job to install these, or should I bring it to a shop? Which shop would you guys suggest going to in the greater toronto area? What should one expect to pay for such an install?

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Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:58 am
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
Probably set you back 500.00 at a shop.

Do you have a garage?

Do you have some metric sockets?

Do you have patients to overcome small problems and find solutions?

Do you have a 2 1/2 to 3 Ton jack with lots of lift and 4 good jack stands and some chunks of 2x10 or 2x12?

Are you a masochist?

If you answered yes to all these questions you can probably do it yourself :lol:


I did mine in my friends house/garage 3 years ago in March on the floor with a jack and jack stands.

Apeman(Bob) did his in a storage locker in January on his back with jackstands.


The car may be a bit wobbly up that high but if you have the balls or are just plain crazy and value $500.00 and knowing you did it right more than you value your life go for it :lol:

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Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:30 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
BTW Champion and SPI are in Oakville and Toronto or DaSilva in Breslau outside of Kitchener.

All can do your install and your tuning.

I get my tunes by mail order,I bought a spare PCM that I send in to a guy in PA and then swap it out for the old one 8)

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Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:42 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
Victor can do it at a great shop rate. Schmitt Tuning 416 876 6542

Rutherford and 27

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Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:59 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
I did mine on a lift 7 years ago now. It took 6 hours to do but was worth it. Also did a clutch swap too. I found the passenger side was harder to install than the drivers side.

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Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:00 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
transamtom wrote:
BTW Champion and SPI are in Oakville and Toronto or DaSilva in Breslau outside of Kitchener.

All can do your install and your tuning.

I get my tunes by mail order,I bought a spare PCM that I send in to a guy in PA and then swap it out for the old one 8)

Where do you order your tunes from? I am assuming you need a handheld tuner like an HPTuner to upload your tunes to your PCM?


Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:53 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
Mail order and shops can get you up and running, but as I've learned over the years, every combo has tweaks and adjustments which are specific to them. A shop tune won't get you efficiency, it'll only keep your engine from self-destructing at WOT. The "street-tune" takes quite a bit of logging, trial/error and understanding of a lot of things.

HP Tuners is a valuable tool once you get to modding. Buy it used to save some cash.

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Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
paradigm wrote:
transamtom wrote:
BTW Champion and SPI are in Oakville and Toronto or DaSilva in Breslau outside of Kitchener.

All can do your install and your tuning.

I get my tunes by mail order,I bought a spare PCM that I send in to a guy in PA and then swap it out for the old one 8)

Where do you order your tunes from? I am assuming you need a handheld tuner like an HPTuner to upload your tunes to your PCM?


A gentleman named Steve Williams..aka " Frost"

Well known in the LS world.

His tunes are awesome.

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Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:37 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
Slade wrote:
Mail order and shops can get you up and running, but as I've learned over the years, every combo has tweaks and adjustments which are specific to them. A shop tune won't get you efficiency, it'll only keep your engine from self-destructing at WOT. The "street-tune" takes quite a bit of logging, trial/error and understanding of a lot of things.

HP Tuners is a valuable tool once you get to modding. Buy it used to save some cash.

I am a little confused. If a shop tune is the same as a dyno tune, shouldn't that get optimum efficiency, or by shop tune did you mean mail-order tune?

Also does the HP Tuner "lock" itself to a particular vehicle once it is activated or can it be used on multiple vehicles without any licensing issues? I remember with the tuners available for my old 2000 Mustang GT, that the tuners "locked" themselves to a vehicle and to use on another vehicle they must be unlocked and sometimes have a license purchased before they could be used again.


Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:28 am
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
paradigm wrote:
Slade wrote:
Mail order and shops can get you up and running, but as I've learned over the years, every combo has tweaks and adjustments which are specific to them. A shop tune won't get you efficiency, it'll only keep your engine from self-destructing at WOT. The "street-tune" takes quite a bit of logging, trial/error and understanding of a lot of things.

HP Tuners is a valuable tool once you get to modding. Buy it used to save some cash.

I am a little confused. If a shop tune is the same as a dyno tune, shouldn't that get optimum efficiency, or by shop tune did you mean mail-order tune?

Also does the HP Tuner "lock" itself to a particular vehicle once it is activated or can it be used on multiple vehicles without any licensing issues? I remember with the tuners available for my old 2000 Mustang GT, that the tuners "locked" themselves to a vehicle and to use on another vehicle they must be unlocked and sometimes have a license purchased before they could be used again.


You need to buy licences for HP.

A dyno tune is ideal but Frost has done so many bolt on cars he can probably do it in his sleep.

For more advanced set ups you would email data logs to Steve and flash your own computer with his tune using HP.

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Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
THere is also Arum that does tuning out of dasilva in kitchener. Most likely the most wel known in the local area

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Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:20 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
While I feel that mail order tunes can get you on your way, I have looked at a lot of so called mail order tunes and found they are too generalized. A street tune is not done in your sleep. It's logging, testing, verifying etc The mail orders get you going, but seriously they are not matched 100% to the combo as some imagine. There's a lot of "adjustment" that the LS1 PCM platform can do to compensate and make up for shortfalls in a tune. It is a "learning" ECM that uses its sensor inputs to the best of its interpretation to get stoich down so you can drive in most scenarios. Some people attribute this as good tuning when in fact the platform itself is very very reliable on that front.

A dyno tune looks at WOT. It gets you going with a decent MAP or MAF table along with power enrichment. The tuner can make adjustments specific to platform such as injector values, timing etc. It's FAR from optimal, it's just what works for the day and when you romp on it. The tuners rely on the LSx platform to self-adjust everywhere else to keep it drivable. A mail order also doesn't know if you went too lean or rich (they tend to err on rich to cover their asses) this is kinda playing with fire if you haven't been on a dyno to verify AFR or have a wideband to confirm. They also can't FEEL what you feel as you drive it. It's always a reactive response to the log you give. Intake leaks, internal problems, noises aren't accounted for. You could be leaking oil into the intake via valve seals, and the tuner sees rich on the logs and leans it out not realizing the log is wrong.

Tuners like Arun do some street tuning as well, but considering their schedules and clientele, its not possible to log most scenarios for a smooth tune which is optimal for all scenarios.

If you get HP Tuners or EFI Live, you will have a lot more power to log the sensors, weed out what is wrong and right with the interpretation and make changes to the base tables for everything that exists. This means your 250 donkey dick cam can idle with crazy lope or be almost smooth like stock. It means on a super hot day you can forget to have the a/c on max and still get a nice clean start on first try. It can mean not having an exhaust smell that is so rich the cars behind you decide to stop fueling themselves because you're providing the fuel for them. It means you can drive 600km on a tank at whatever "reasonable" highway speed you want or drive around in the city and net 400 km in stop/go commuting. It means a nice smooth idle that doesn't rattle your teeth.. .etc

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Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:26 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
Slade wrote:
While I feel that mail order tunes can get you on your way, I have looked at a lot of so called mail order tunes and found they are too generalized. A street tune is not done in your sleep. It's logging, testing, verifying etc The mail orders get you going, but seriously they are not matched 100% to the combo as some imagine. There's a lot of "adjustment" that the LS1 PCM platform can do to compensate and make up for shortfalls in a tune. It is a "learning" ECM that uses its sensor inputs to the best of its interpretation to get stoich down so you can drive in most scenarios. Some people attribute this as good tuning when in fact the platform itself is very very reliable on that front.

A dyno tune looks at WOT. It gets you going with a decent MAP or MAF table along with power enrichment. The tuner can make adjustments specific to platform such as injector values, timing etc. It's FAR from optimal, it's just what works for the day and when you romp on it. The tuners rely on the LSx platform to self-adjust everywhere else to keep it drivable. A mail order also doesn't know if you went too lean or rich (they tend to err on rich to cover their asses) this is kinda playing with fire if you haven't been on a dyno to verify AFR or have a wideband to confirm. They also can't FEEL what you feel as you drive it. It's always a reactive response to the log you give. Intake leaks, internal problems, noises aren't accounted for. You could be leaking oil into the intake via valve seals, and the tuner sees rich on the logs and leans it out not realizing the log is wrong.

Tuners like Arun do some street tuning as well, but considering their schedules and clientele, its not possible to log most scenarios for a smooth tune which is optimal for all scenarios.

If you get HP Tuners or EFI Live, you will have a lot more power to log the sensors, weed out what is wrong and right with the interpretation and make changes to the base tables for everything that exists. This means your 250 donkey dick cam can idle with crazy lope or be almost smooth like stock. It means on a super hot day you can forget to have the a/c on max and still get a nice clean start on first try. It can mean not having an exhaust smell that is so rich the cars behind you decide to stop fueling themselves because you're providing the fuel for them. It means you can drive 600km on a tank at whatever "reasonable" highway speed you want or drive around in the city and net 400 km in stop/go commuting. It means a nice smooth idle that doesn't rattle your teeth.. .etc


Well all I can tell you is look at my cars #'s vs what my mods are and the fact that it has 130,000 miles on the odo.

I bet a great local tuner would be hard pressed to safely get more than 5 peak hp out of this thing.

I paid 150.00 for my first tune including shipping both ways,my subsequent tunes(2) were $75.00 shipped each.

My driveability is great and the car hauls ass,I am happy and I saved a pile of money. JMHO

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Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:35 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
BTW I don't consider a cam a bolt on mod,even Steve will send a base tune to get you running and advise you to get it dyno tuned.

BTW he does dyno tuning as well and frequently flies into cities to do multiple cars over a weekend.

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Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:40 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
Running a fast time on track is just as much the driver as the car and track conditions.

If you take your car in for any kind of work, do you not verify the work was done right? Why should a tune be different?

Always verify. Too often these so called tunes of people tuned by reputable people are done with reliing 95% on the ECU's ability to adapt.

I recommend the op of this thread to get HP tuners and learn to tune, research. There are plenty around here that have worked on tunes enough to guide, and the HP tuners website is amazing to learn. Take it to a dyno, get the WOT and MAF dialed in and a few adjustments from the tuner.

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