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 Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY? 
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
I'm just finishing reading this book before firing up HP tuners for my 6.0 swap.. It's a great read and provides a good background on what HP tuners or EFI Live can do and how to tune..

http://www.masportspeedshop.com/servlet/StoreFront

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Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:38 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
transamtom wrote:
Slade wrote:
While I feel that mail order tunes can get you on your way, I have looked at a lot of so called mail order tunes and found they are too generalized. A street tune is not done in your sleep. It's logging, testing, verifying etc The mail orders get you going, but seriously they are not matched 100% to the combo as some imagine. There's a lot of "adjustment" that the LS1 PCM platform can do to compensate and make up for shortfalls in a tune. It is a "learning" ECM that uses its sensor inputs to the best of its interpretation to get stoich down so you can drive in most scenarios. Some people attribute this as good tuning when in fact the platform itself is very very reliable on that front.

A dyno tune looks at WOT. It gets you going with a decent MAP or MAF table along with power enrichment. The tuner can make adjustments specific to platform such as injector values, timing etc. It's FAR from optimal, it's just what works for the day and when you romp on it. The tuners rely on the LSx platform to self-adjust everywhere else to keep it drivable. A mail order also doesn't know if you went too lean or rich (they tend to err on rich to cover their asses) this is kinda playing with fire if you haven't been on a dyno to verify AFR or have a wideband to confirm. They also can't FEEL what you feel as you drive it. It's always a reactive response to the log you give. Intake leaks, internal problems, noises aren't accounted for. You could be leaking oil into the intake via valve seals, and the tuner sees rich on the logs and leans it out not realizing the log is wrong.

Tuners like Arun do some street tuning as well, but considering their schedules and clientele, its not possible to log most scenarios for a smooth tune which is optimal for all scenarios.

If you get HP Tuners or EFI Live, you will have a lot more power to log the sensors, weed out what is wrong and right with the interpretation and make changes to the base tables for everything that exists. This means your 250 donkey dick cam can idle with crazy lope or be almost smooth like stock. It means on a super hot day you can forget to have the a/c on max and still get a nice clean start on first try. It can mean not having an exhaust smell that is so rich the cars behind you decide to stop fueling themselves because you're providing the fuel for them. It means you can drive 600km on a tank at whatever "reasonable" highway speed you want or drive around in the city and net 400 km in stop/go commuting. It means a nice smooth idle that doesn't rattle your teeth.. .etc


Well all I can tell you is look at my cars #'s vs what my mods are and the fact that it has 130,000 miles on the odo.

I bet a great local tuner would be hard pressed to safely get more than 5 peak hp out of this thing.

I paid 150.00 for my first tune including shipping both ways,my subsequent tunes(2) were $75.00 shipped each.

My driveability is great and the car hauls ass,I am happy and I saved a pile of money. JMHO



How long ago did you last get a tune from Steve? He told me recently that he was getting scammed by canadians and he didn't want to deal with shipping to canada anymore.. but now he is looking into a quote for me. Which shipping service did you use? I am really hesitant to use UPS because I don't want to get screwed by their duties/taxes/BS fees.


I really would like to learn how to tune on my own...I just don't know if I really have the time and what it takes to learn how to do it without blowing the damn car up.

Anyone here selling their HP tuning suite? Can you even buy these things used or must they be purchased new?


Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:26 am
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
I just wanted to pop my 2 cents in here :lol:

Now I admit I haven't really tuned the 4th gen and up stuff, but going off my experience with the ODB1 tuning, Slade has a lot of true and valuable info pointed out.

I have a jar full of peoples failed mail order chips now sitting here from customers who originally thought otherwise, in many of the cases the stock tune actually ran better. :lol:

Regardless, good luck with your builds, and enjoy the car 8)

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Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:29 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
paradigm wrote:
transamtom wrote:
Slade wrote:
While I feel that mail order tunes can get you on your way, I have looked at a lot of so called mail order tunes and found they are too generalized. A street tune is not done in your sleep. It's logging, testing, verifying etc The mail orders get you going, but seriously they are not matched 100% to the combo as some imagine. There's a lot of "adjustment" that the LS1 PCM platform can do to compensate and make up for shortfalls in a tune. It is a "learning" ECM that uses its sensor inputs to the best of its interpretation to get stoich down so you can drive in most scenarios. Some people attribute this as good tuning when in fact the platform itself is very very reliable on that front.

A dyno tune looks at WOT. It gets you going with a decent MAP or MAF table along with power enrichment. The tuner can make adjustments specific to platform such as injector values, timing etc. It's FAR from optimal, it's just what works for the day and when you romp on it. The tuners rely on the LSx platform to self-adjust everywhere else to keep it drivable. A mail order also doesn't know if you went too lean or rich (they tend to err on rich to cover their asses) this is kinda playing with fire if you haven't been on a dyno to verify AFR or have a wideband to confirm. They also can't FEEL what you feel as you drive it. It's always a reactive response to the log you give. Intake leaks, internal problems, noises aren't accounted for. You could be leaking oil into the intake via valve seals, and the tuner sees rich on the logs and leans it out not realizing the log is wrong.

Tuners like Arun do some street tuning as well, but considering their schedules and clientele, its not possible to log most scenarios for a smooth tune which is optimal for all scenarios.

If you get HP Tuners or EFI Live, you will have a lot more power to log the sensors, weed out what is wrong and right with the interpretation and make changes to the base tables for everything that exists. This means your 250 donkey dick cam can idle with crazy lope or be almost smooth like stock. It means on a super hot day you can forget to have the a/c on max and still get a nice clean start on first try. It can mean not having an exhaust smell that is so rich the cars behind you decide to stop fueling themselves because you're providing the fuel for them. It means you can drive 600km on a tank at whatever "reasonable" highway speed you want or drive around in the city and net 400 km in stop/go commuting. It means a nice smooth idle that doesn't rattle your teeth.. .etc


Well all I can tell you is look at my cars #'s vs what my mods are and the fact that it has 130,000 miles on the odo.

I bet a great local tuner would be hard pressed to safely get more than 5 peak hp out of this thing.

I paid 150.00 for my first tune including shipping both ways,my subsequent tunes(2) were $75.00 shipped each.

My driveability is great and the car hauls ass,I am happy and I saved a pile of money. JMHO



How long ago did you last get a tune from Steve? He told me recently that he was getting scammed by canadians and he didn't want to deal with shipping to canada anymore.. but now he is looking into a quote for me. Which shipping service did you use? I am really hesitant to use UPS because I don't want to get screwed by their duties/taxes/BS fees.


I really would like to learn how to tune on my own...I just don't know if I really have the time and what it takes to learn how to do it without blowing the damn car up.

Anyone here selling their HP tuning suite? Can you even buy these things used or must they be purchased new?



Probably 2 years ago and I used good old Canada Post.

Sorry to here he is getting scammed,he is a great guy to deal with and knows his stuff.

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Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:30 pm
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Post Re: Long tube header install - which shop? Or DIY?
If you're considering learning to tune definately read some books before buying the software. I have a copy of the book listed above that I would sell you. Pm if you are interested.

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Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:32 pm
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